Episode 2: Meet the tea innovator going global, with purpose

Amie and Angeline sit down with Tania Stacey, cofounder of East Forged Cold Brew Nitro Tea. 

Hear how Tania and Kym have pioneered the tea beverage category in Australia and have plans to expand internationally – but not before they have helped make the world a better place. 

Transcript

Amie Larter:

Welcome to Women Transforming Food, a monthly podcast brought to you by G100 and Inside FMCG, exploring the stories of inspiring women shaping the food industry. Today,

I'm joined by my co -host, G100 Mission Million, and Angeline Achariya, Asia Pacific Chair of the Food Systems Innovation and Resilience Wing, and Tanya Stacey, co -founder of East Forged Cold Brew Nitro Tea. Welcome, ladies.

Tania Stacey:

Hello everyone.

Angeline Achariya:

Hello Amy, hello Tanya.

Amie Larter:

Angeline, second episode.

Angeline Achariya:

So exciting!

Amie Larter:

I know. So, we're going to jump straight into it. Tanya, I love the story behind East Forged. You and your co -founder, Kym Cooper, first cross paths in, I think it was 2017, both with not only phenomenal tea journeys, but also a mutual passion for creating tea drinks that suit the modern lifestyle. So, before we get into unpacking Nitro Tea, and perhaps even you can brief us in on what Nitro Tea is, where did your love or journey with tea begin?

Tania Stacey:

My journey with tea, first off, I should say thank you very much for having me here today. Now my journey with tea really is you could break it down into four parts. I grew up with tea and my dad taught me how to make tea. He was a Billy, the Billy tea boy when he was an apprentice on the building site. So, in those days you built a fire and threw tea into the Billy can, you know. So, he taught me how to make tea.

The second part of it was I was in the early 2000’s, I travelled to China with my partner, Jeff Robertson, he was working over there. And while he was there, I was investigating and meandering around the streets of China. And I bought one of my very first little, tiny, small clay teapots. And whilst I was there, the shop owner said to me, come and drink some green tea with me. And I thought to myself, gosh, green tea, I don't like green tea, don't like green tea. And but you do the right thing. So, I went out the back and it was the most delicious green tea I'd ever had. And all I thought was, you know, like, why don't we have that here in Australia? This is ridiculous. So, it just started that little rabbit hole in my mind. And I was in a corporate role at that stage in sales.

So, I was looking for an exit plan and tea started to become my exit plan. The third major component of my journey in tea was, okay, so if I'm gonna sell something, I need to know about it. So, I need to travel around the world, investigate tea everywhere and then, so my first journey was to Taiwan. And then I never left Taiwan. I've discovered with tea that there are so many rabbit holes, that you can’t leave that rabbit hole and I've just kept going back to Taiwan, fell in love with the country, the people, their enthusiasm around tea. So Taiwanese teas, I'm the biggest nerd around the Taiwanese teas. 

Amie Larter

Love it.

Tania Stacey:

And then the fourth one and this is probably what's impacted the East Forged journey so much was when I won the World Tea Brewing Championship and it, I have been a judge there as well as a competitor. And this helps take me from dry leaf tea industry, which is when you buy the dry leaf, and the liquid tea industry, which is the iced tea or the ready to drink tea. It's already been brewed for you and you're buying it in the bottle. So that's the difference. And it jumped me in between those two industries and made me think about tea in a different way.

So that's my journey so far. They were the four major impacts.

Angeline Achariya:

Wow, I feel like I've actually gone on that journey. Thank you so much for describing it that way. And what I'm really keen to understand I love that Taiwanese tea nerd piece but let's unpack a little bit about you know as you've built that deep understanding of the tea category you identified a gap in the market as you said and then you develop this thing called the Cold Brew Nitro Tea.

I'm keen maybe first unpack for us what is cold brew Nitro tea so everyone's sitting here going what is this drink? And I've tasted it, it’s delicious, and then maybe let us know what were the insights, the market insights that drove you to that innovation Tania.

Tania Stacey:

Okay, so cold brew, this is questions that we are asked all the time. Cold brew is usually understood because of the cold brewing in the coffee industry. So, there is a perception out there in the market, they understand the process. However, cold brewing is taking the actual tea leaf, and that's what we do. We put it in water, and we let it sit. And it does its own long, slow, cold extraction.

As opposed to a hot tea extraction when you put the kettle on and add hot water. And that is a fast, a faster extraction. But with that extraction also becomes astringency, bitterness if it's over brewed or if the temperature is too hot. With cold brewing, it's a far more gentle extraction. You have the same components coming out, but with less bitterness and less astringency.

So that is the reason why we chose cold brewing. The nitro part is…

Amie Larter:

And this is the bit for me that I need to know, yeah.

Tania Stacey:

The nitro part came about because we didn't want to do a simple cold brew tea because people can do that themselves at home. We wanted to offer a better experience for the customer. And part of that is the textural component of when you drink. And to add the textural component, which is air, which nitrogen gas is, it makes up most of what we breathe in the atmosphere. That adds the textural component. 

So, we are actually dropping liquid nitrogen into the can, as we can the drink. And what that does, is when you shake it, the liquid nitrogen goes back into the liquid, the tea liquid and as you open the can and pour the nitrogen goes, I don't like to be in this liquid, and it comes bursting up and it surges and cascades in the liquid and forms that beautiful creamy frothy cap on top. Nitrogen gas makes the best silky smooth frothy cap over the CO2. And to help understand it a little bit, some people have said, well, we're the Guinness of the tea industry and yes, it is the same gas mix that Guinness Beer uses. So, it's been around for a long time. But there is also nitro coffee out there as well. 

Angeline Achariya:

And it certainly does add to the texture because you know having tried it that silkiness that you get and I love how you say it's like the Guinness of tea which is you know kind of that's the first feel I got so tell me how did you I guess unpack that from a marketing side you know, what were the some of the consumers what were they saying?

 *****

Tania Stacey:

Okay, both, so how we got to this point, and this is a question we are actually asked a lot, is how did we come up with it? Kym and I have been in the tea industry for about a decade and we lived very clearly within the dry leaf industry, but through that we've travelled to Taiwan, to China and into the US and Kym's done Japan and everything. And both of us noticed that in Australia, it's probably one of the very few countries, in fact, for us, it's the only country that doesn't offer a truly unsweetened tea. And when I mean unsweetened tea is there's no flavours and there's no sugars. It's just truly a cold brew tea. So, it's very common to see in other countries where you have sweetened options, options with flavours added, and you see the unsweetened tea. So, this is where we saw in Australia that that was missing.

The other influence for us was in Taiwan, and this is where the Taiwanese nerdy side of me comes back in. You can see there's been influences and market observations for us everywhere we've travelled. We watch and we look, and we observe. In Taiwan, they have a five-tea infusion method where you brew the tea multiple times, at least four times.

The final one is you take the leaves, you put them in cold water, pop them in the fridge for a cold tea in the morning. So, it's always about using the tea as much as you can. So that was where the cold brewing came from. And that is the inspiration that we could see that there was a gap in the market here. And so, and as I say, also the World Tea Brewing Championship, that made us think outside of it. We also know coming from the tea industry that this was needed and wanted by the tea people.

Amie Larter:

Okay. So, it's, it's a unique product here in Australia. And as you mentioned within, you know, quite an established category, how was your team, I’m interested to understand how has the tea been received here in Australia and, know, maybe even global consumers as well?

Tania Stacey:

Here in Australia, it's actually been really exciting, but like any FMCG product, we need to sample it. It's not like a SAAS program or a software program where you can trial for seven days. So, what we have found that when people have the chance to taste East Forged, they're usually converted. They really enjoy it, the taste of East Forged. Kym calls it liquid on the lips.

And the category in Australia is established, but it is limited, as I mentioned earlier, that the competitors usually copy the major leader of the market where we have completely different, if anything, we're bringing people into the market. So, it's probably similar, you could, to give an example similar to the craft beer industry where you have mainstream beer, then you have your craft beer industry.

And kombucha is the same. It's a similar industry, but it's unique to itself. So, we are definitely a new style of tea drink. And from the global perspective, we are so happy to say that we've had so much support from within the tea industry itself, from the UK and the Canadian Tea Associations, supporting that they see this as very innovative product.

And then quite proudly, I can say that East Forged has won more than 20 awards within industry…

Amie Larter:

Well done. Yeah.

Tania Stacey:

In the low, non, thank you, globally and here in Australia, usually in the low, no alk categories. So, we're up against all those types of drinks and tea stands alone. And I love it because a lot of those awards come from the UK and that means we're selling tea back to the UK, our Queensland black tea.

So, that and then, so I have, we've received all these multiple affirmations from the consumer, once they taste it from the industry itself, and then traveling recently to South Korea. We're finding the same response in South Korea from the same younger generation, in particular looking for that no sugar option of tea and also for them, it was a tea that they could drink with their fried chicken when they're socialising with their friends. If anyone knows Korean fried chicken. 

Amie Larter:

Delicious. Yeah.

Tania Stacey:

Angeline does, I can see that.

Angeline Achariya:

Very yum. So, Tanya, that's fantastic to hear and congratulations on all of those awards but I'm sure in the early stages, you and Kym would have faced some scepticism, perhaps even this lack of awareness just like Amie and I were asking about what is this cold brew tea concept? How did you maintain your belief in the product and the business?

Tania Stacey:

Thanks, Angeline. There are moments you do question yourself and I shan't name any accelerators, but in the early days we have gone through a number of different accelerators. And it was the mentors that were often saying to us, where did you come up with, where have you seen this idea before? And I thought that was interesting, not that possibly we came up with the idea, it was like, where have you seen this idea before? 

And I know that there is a saying, there's never an original idea anywhere in the world. Someone else has thought of it. And maybe other people have thought about it, but we are a world first in what we're doing and how we're doing it. There is cold brew tea and there is some nitro tea out there, but the way we're doing it is very unique. What we found positive, and this is keeps us motivated was really at the consumer markets like Finders Keepers, Big Design, where the consumer would come up, taste it and say, where did you come up with this idea? And they had a belief, automatic belief in us, which was really reassuring. So, with the markets, we've kept diaries of all the markets, their comments that people say to us.

And the words that they say when they first taste it. So, we use that to communicate further with other people. And also, of course, like I mentioned before, the tea industry itself, the people in the tea industry keep us very motivated as well. I should mention one thing, the other thing that really this is because that's all very emotional and that's all very keeps you motivated that way. But Kym and I keep 90-day goal plan and in that 90-day goal plan, we have our long-term strategy, and we have our individual goals that keep us accountable. And they are so we report against our goals in our monthly report to each other. And it's these goals, honestly, that just keep us going forward all the time, because we're always reading them and analysing them. 

Amie Larter:

That’s excellent. So, launching a new beverage product is it's risky. How did your personal belief in your abilities and obviously your long journey with tea and the new brand contribute to your willingness to take calculated risks?

Tania Stacey:

Oh, Amie. This question brings a smile to my face. Kym and I often laugh and say if we only knew what we were letting ourselves in for, we probably would never have started. So, naivety is actually a great asset to have at times, isn't it? And then you go so far, and you go, well, I might as just keep going. I've gotten this far. I just keep going.

But we do lean very much into our skill set. Kym is a chartered accountant and I'm from a sales and marketing background. So, every step is carefully revised, every step of the way. But at the same time, there are times you just do have to test the waters. And that's usually me saying to Kym, Kym, what the hell? Come on, let's just test this, take it to market, but mistakes happen and it's we always make sure we learn lessons from it and not do that again. 

But also, a common thing that Kym and I have is that we were both brought up by our dads we had mums as well, but we had dads that really believed in us as their daughters and it's, it's often what I say that men and fathers have a very strong role in how women can benchmark and set standards for themselves. And I also believe that's reversed as well, mothers with sons. And it just helps to benchmark how we view ourselves and believe in ourselves. 

And also, the other thing for us is our primary focus has always been the customer experience and help to build a brand that people will remember. And if you don't remember the name East Forged, which is fine, and that is called East Forged because we live on the East Coast of Australia. So, we forged on the East Coast of Australia. You will remember our tea pets, Amie, won't you? 

Amie Larter:

Oh, oh yes.

Tania Stacey:

So, if you... so, and they’re our little nod to the idiosyncrasies of the tea world. But if you walk into a store, you're going to spot monkey, you're going to spot cat, and you're going to spot pig.

Amie Larter:

And I did on the website, I must say, when I was doing the research for this podcast, I went down a, as, I wouldn't say, I don't have as much, of course, tea knowledge as you. And so, a lot of these concepts, including nitro tea, as an example, were new to me. And I did go down a rabbit hole of what on earth is a tea pet? Tea pet, yes. 

But it's fabulous and I think the brand itself, it's really, really cool. Now, when did you launch? Was it around, because you met in 2017 or crossed paths in 2017, when did the brand itself launch?

Tania Stacey:

We established the brand in 2019, and our first production was February 2020.

Amie Larter:

That would have been an interesting time.

Tania Stacey:

It was. 

Amie Larter:

To launch a business.

Tania Stacey:

It was. And our strategy to market at that point was we were going to go through the, you know, hospitality trade, go and see all the cafes, restaurants and everything. And then this little thing called COVID came along. And Kym was, Kym's in Queensland. I'm here in Victoria. And I said to Kym, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. This too shall pass. This will just be a couple of months of a hiccup, and we'll be fine. Well, it was a little bit longer than that, obviously, and especially here in Victoria. So, Kym was able to get back out and establish some stockists and suppliers out there in Queensland, but everyone was very wary to take on new product. 

So, we also sat back and evaluated where could we, if it was going to be difficult to get stockers for ourselves, where can we continue to work on the business and do all that hard work that you find you can't have time for later on when you get really busy. So, I redid the website, I made it more consumer friendly, I taught myself that, so our website was built by me.

We went out to tea clubs through Meetup, and we sent out samples to them and I did online qualitative research and interviewed one-on-one to find the words, the language to use with people that people could understand because that's the trouble. You get involved in your own industry and then you're using words that you know but not the everyday person.

Amie Larter:

I mean, you need to educate the market, yeah.

Tania Stacey:

Exactly, like nitro, nitro tea, for example. 

Amie Larter:

I've learnt a lot from you, Tanya.

Tania Stacey:

Yeah, so that was what we worked on at the time. And then as the market started to open up, we decided through our learnings at that time, get to the consumer markets, get to the consumers, because the retailers themselves, they need to feel comfortable to see that the consumer knows what it's about. So, we got to the consumers first and created more of a pull demand than a push demand.

****

Angeline Achariya:

And that's fabulous to hear Tanya. So, you've spoken a little bit about Kym, and I feel like she's here with us in a way, right? I guess building a successful business with a co-founder requires immense trust. And I was just curious about what were those specific qualities and, you know, complementary skills that you think your partnership sort of brought together so effectively?

And how do you think this dynamic duo of you and Kym has contributed to the success of East Forged?

Tania Stacey:

I love my business partner. I have the best business partner in the whole wide world. And I will just state first and foremost, we are asked about this, like how to find a good business partner. And honestly, we truly believe our partnership is very unique. And that, and because of that, we appreciate it and love it very much. But if we take our if I take it back a little bit to when we first met.

Kym and I had worked on with another friend of ours on a little tiny project, Whiskey Tea, where we had taken Taiwanese oolongs and infused them in whiskey barrels down at Starwood Whiskey. And through that process, I admired Kym's work ethics. And we still love our other tea friend, if she's listening to this too, by the way, we love her dearly.

But I really did admire Kym's work ethics and her ability to juggle family life with two young children and get her work done with her commitment. So that was, it started there and then she started talking to me about the cold brew tea. And then we decided to go ahead, forge ahead with it together. In the early days, Kym had come across some questionnaire that partners or business partners should use to question each other, to see where your values, deeper values lie. And I don't even think she remembers where she found this from. And I still remember her sending it to me. It was like in the first six months. Now this is Kym, right? And this is me on the other side going, what has she sent to me? Okay, I'll do it, you know?

And we went through that and what we found is yes, we are very different people. She is very risk adverse because she charted accountant in the she was in risk and assessment in the one I think was Deloitte's one of the top fours. Here's Tanya from sales and marketing, and we know sales has an element of don't let facts get in the way of a good story as my dad used to say. 

Angeline Achariya:

Creativity.

Tania Stacey:

Creativeness yeah, and here's me the other side saying what the hell you know.

But what we had was a basic values, our own values and a belief in ourselves and how that's come about through our upbringings, through our parents, our family lives, but also, we both wanted to leave this world a little bit better.

We both wanted to, my children are all grown up now, but hers are young. We both wanted to bring up the best new citizens of the world because our children are the next citizens of the world. And so, we found, and we just wanted to do better. And so those real basic principles are very true to us. And so that's what we found binds us. And because and honestly, if you ever sat in on a meeting between the two of us, honestly, the way we bounce off each other, I don't know. I was just thinking about this the other day, it's almost like Elton John and Bernie Taupin, the way they work together, you know, it just works. And so honestly, we send little messages, I know this sounds really dorky, but we send little messages to each other all the time going, you are the best business partner in the world. No, you are, you are. 

Angeline Achariya:

I love that!

Tania Stacey:

And so, we never want to lose that because together we are so much stronger. We really are quite strong. So yeah, that's Kym and I.

Angeline Achariya:

I love it how the values meet but also how you are constantly also just affirming and recognising your partnership and each other, right? In terms of how you're creating magic together with your tea. So, one of the things when we were speaking earlier, I learned about was the International Alliance for Women in Tea. And I'm really curious about how, some of the ways that East Forged is impacting the lives of women who work in the tea plantations. And we know that when women do a lot of this work, the economic benefits far outweigh the communities that they are in as well. Can you just share a little bit more about how you're impacting this space?

Tania Stacey:

Thank you for this and thanks for asking about this too. It is really important to Kym and I. Currently, we use tea that is sourced from Australia because we are well aware of it is grown ethically and sustainably. And the only other white tea we source from China. And honestly, in countries like China and Taiwan and Japan, the tea workers are well treated. It's a really good industry. However, there are other parts of the world where the tea, the field workers don't have a great lifestyle. It is the tea that you're buying two cents a tea bag. The impact it feels is felt all the way back to those tea workers and majority of them are females and the males sit in management roles.

So, I love the International Alliance for Women in Tea. We both absolutely love it. It is new. It is about a global focus for women in tea. Their mission is to unite, inspire and advance women at every level in the tea value chain and creating sustainable and equitable future for all. So, we love what they do and our future is to work with them. We've started reaching out and chatting to them about working with them to develop programs that can help women within these particular countries. And tea in these particular countries is a major contributor to the country's GDP, which people don't understand. 

And so those women are carrying the economy of many of those countries on their back and they need help and be it through education, needs for their children, sanitary needs, housing needs, all those, there's just so much work to do. But that is something that the women behind the IAWT can help us. And I think this is good as well because you do have big tea companies with their own programs in their own tea farms. But I think that doesn't allow for that level of transparency and accountability, which is really, really needed. And what Kym and I need is we don't have a huge background in those countries like Kenya and India and that, where these tea farms are growing in Indonesia. 

But these women do and they can guide us more in this area so we, that’s our future there with East Forged with them. But also, I would like to shout out in particular to on a local level, national Australian level, is the VIEW Club, which is a female organisation that was established in 1960 by some of the older feminists of the world. And they support, are, let me just double check, it stands for Voice Interest and Education of Women. And their sole focus is to raise funds for the Smith family, which is the education of our disadvantaged children here in Australia. And they've been running since 1960. But shout out to those women as well. 

Angeline Achariya:

Here, here.

Tania Stacey:

They just get on with doing it, you know, because to move forward, we've got to know who's been there in the past, don't you think, as well? So, yeah, so I'm going to be guest speaker at the local club next month. So I'm looking forward to that, but I just, love what they do too. So that builds on Kym and my belief in education.

Angeline Achariya:

And that's fantastic, congratulations. I think, as you say, it's how do you stand on the shoulders of giants, right? And similarly, on the G100 mission, it's how do you amplify the voice of women as we're doing as well. So well done on that, Tanya.

Tania Stacey:

Thank you, Angelina.

Amie Larter:

That's amazing. Okay, so you've built an amazing brand and what really feels like quite a purpose led business. I'm keen to understand what's the long-term vision for East Forged?

Tania Stacey:

We have big vision. Because we have Tania here in the team. We actually want to be a leader in the craft tea, liquid tea industry. That's what we want. We want to see that grow similar to the craft beer. And we want to see that grow globally. Now, the reason why we want to see that grow is that it will encourage people to value and appreciate tea.

So, they will pay more for it. And when they pay more for tea, guess what? The people that pick that tea for you will get a better life as well. So that's our main motivation, this beautiful industry with the perfect on -the -go tea that suits your lifestyle, that goes from lunch to dinner, from social events to taking time to yourself, and you're helping the people that bring it to you along the way. So, globally we are looking at and we have investigated expanding East Forged into East Asia, Southeast Asia, the USA. We see big opportunities there in the USA and the UK and Europe as well. So, we have big plans.

Amie Larter:

Exciting. It's really exciting. Now, before we wrap up, I'm keen to understand and I must admit and I don't like to admit this, but I do fall into this category. For those that haven't tried your nitro cold brew nitro tea, where can we get.

Tania Stacey:

Well Amie, first, it's always okay to admit. It's better to admit than not admit to it. But we are in over 200 stockers. You'll find us in your local IGA. If they don't have us there yet, please ask them to get us in because they can order us in very easily through Metcash.

Amie Larter:

I can do actually; this I can do.

Tania Stacey:

And that will help. You will see us in the single can. So, if you just want to taste it, otherwise you can find us online as well. 

Amie Larter:

Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing your inspiring story, Tania. It's a unique one, but one that is just you can see the passion and love that you have for tea and also just how much you love doing business generally. So, it's phenomenal. And Angeline, it's been a pleasure as always, I mean, as always, it is episode two. As always.

Angeline Achariya:

As always yes, we'll get used to this Amy.

Amie Larter:

But no, if you've enjoyed listening to today's podcast, subscribe to Women Transforming Food for more inspiring stories. And thank you, ladies.