Episode 9: Coles leader explains why embracing sustainability is vital in tough times

Amie Larter and Angeline Achariya talk to Karen Job, Head of commercial sustainability & delivery at Coles Group. In this episode, they discuss how despite cost-of-living challenges, businesses need to keep pushing and investing in improvements.

Transcript

Amie:

Welcome to Women Transforming Food, a monthly podcast brought to you by G100 and Inside FMCG, where we explore the inspiring journeys of women shaping the future of the food industry. Today, I'm joined by my co-host, Angeline Achariya, Asia Pacific Chair of the Food Systems Innovation and Resilience Wing at G100 Mission Milne and our guest for this episode Karen Job, Head of Commercial Sustainability and Delivery at Coles. Welcome ladies.

Karen:

Thanks Amie, lovely to be here.

Angeline:

Hello Karen, hello Amie, great to be back.

Amie:

It is good. So throughout this series, we've spoken to some truly remarkable women, leaders who are redefining the food industry today. We're going to deep dive today into the career of Karen Job, someone who's seen the retail landscape from both sides of the globe. Karen, you've navigated the complexities of food retail in both the UK with Marks and Spencer and here in Australia with Coles. 

From the intricacies of product development to mastering food safety, sustainability, and commercial risk across every product category imaginable, fresh, chilled, ambient, and from working with small producers to managing massive manufacturing operations. Karen, you've seen it all.

So we're keen to kickstart with what sparked your initial interest in this fast paced world of food retail and how has your incredibly diverse experience shaped your strategic approach to navigating the challenges and opportunities we're all facing and seeing today?

Karen:

Well, Amie, I actually was pretty unusual in that I knew what profession I wanted to do and started my career as a food technologist. And I figured it out when I was about 15, which is really quite unusual, particularly in food technology. What happened is my dad was a buyer in Marks and Spencer. So I grew up sitting around the dinner table talking about his job. And when I was 15, which is several decades ago now, I went on what was called a take your daughters to work day, which was...was so much fun and I met these amazing people called food technologists and I was like, this is what I want to do. 

And it's an amazing profession because it combines science, which I loved, but I wasn't a fan of the lab. I didn't like the lab coats. It's combined science with a corporate commercial kind of world. And I was never going to be a doctor or a vet or anything like that. And so I got super excited. And following on from that, I went and spent two days shadowing two really inspiring women, one of them in the office, understanding what the job looked like in the office, and then the other one going out to a manufacturer. 

And I literally fell in love with it and decided that was what I wanted to do. I studied at school, studied a food science degree at university. And then I was super lucky to get a graduate job at Marks and Spencer, but also a graduate job at a large UK manufacturer as well. They're called Northern Foods, they don't exist anymore. But I actually genuinely spent about a fortnight totally undecided about which way to go, manufacturing or retail.

And I do, and I still love the dynamic, the creativity of food manufacturing. It's so energetic, so fast paced, but my heart lie in retail. And it was all about that direct connection to customers. The idea that what you were doing was delivering something that customers took home and ate at their homes every day. And genuinely, yeah, I was sold at that point. And so, yeah, I had a fabulous 10 years as a food technologist at Marks and Spencer. I really learned the trade. But after 10 years, I moved into the international business. I actually very nearly left. actually, probably not ironically, nearly went to work for an organization where one of the women I'd gone and shadowed with back as a teenager was now the COO, CUNET Network last for years. I went, but I didn't, I moved into the international part of the business. And there I spent five years. It was an amazing, challenging five years.I was running the food safety and quality across the non UK business. So, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, so Singapore, Hong Kong, China, and as well as some Eastern European countries as well. And that really taught me how to work in isolation because in the first 10 years you were very much part of a team. And that was of one the other things about retail that I loved and still love is, is that dynamic and everyone that really healthy tension between your colleagues, particularly with your commercial buyers and your food technologists, kind of that little tug of war is what makes the magic.

But this time I was kind of on my own and I had to really be able to explain why. I had to, in these really different cultures, really different countries to get across the food safety standards that I was trying to instill. And I was only in like somewhere like Kuwait for like two days. And then I'd come home again and to make sure that it lasted when I got back on that plane, I learned I had to be able to explain why. And if I couldn't explain why, then it probably wasn't the right thing to be asking them to do. And I think in terms of how I then, that still sticks with me today in terms of your question about opportunities and challenges that we're facing today. That's still so valid, even in my new role in sustainability, about being able to explain to your stakeholders why we need to do something. So yeah, that's my journey so far.

Angeline:

Wow. If only I knew at 15, I wanted to be a food technologist. I think I had one of those questions where it was like, what's a food technologist?

Amie:

It's so rare to know early. And I think a lot of people put pressure on the fact that people need to know what they want to do. But I was similar in the sense that I'd always wanted to go into journalism and or writing. So it's so nice to have that understanding and passion, I think, upfront, because it does make such a difference in terms of that direction.

Karen:

Yeah, I think it sticks with me today. think you can tell my passion today links from how much it was when I was young and I was a teenager and it formed what I wanted to do and I feel lucky for that.

Angeline:

It's coming right across this podcast right now. So Karen, retailers, you talked a lot about your love of retail and started at the kitchen table with your dad. And retailers do play a crucial role in shaping consumer choices and industry practices. In your current role, what has been an example of a major shift you've helped drive and what did it take to make it happen?

Karen:

So I'm still relatively new into my role in sustainability. It's coming up to a year, but compared to the decades of food technology before. So at the moment, we have something called TCFD, which is voluntary disclosure of our risks and opportunities, which we have in our annual report every year already. From the financial year 2026 for Coles, because we're a large business, something called the Australian Sustainability Reporting Standard is being introduced. 

And the work to do this has been led so far mainly by legal risk and finance, but I, in the last six months, have been getting involved as well. And my role in commercial, and for commercial, I mean the supermarket's part of Coles. Then I'm now fully involved, and my role is to make sure that the milestones and the roadmap, because many of the climate risks and opportunities actually sit, as you can imagine, in the supermarket's part of our business, whether that's some of the challenges of supply chain and some of the recent weather up in Queensland in the last month, that actually some of those supply chain risks actually really impact, as you can imagine, the supermarkets part of business. So my role is to take what legal risks have done and try and translate it into the actual day-to-day operations of how we're doing and how to make it happen. 

The only way we're doing it is collaboration. And I am sure retail is not that different from many large corporates in that it's very typical to work in silos where everyone is so focused on their own area, which yeah, I'm sure this is not just retail, but having to break down those silos and having to really genuinely work, not just talk about working, but genuinely work cross-functionally is really challenging, but we need all those skill sets. We cannot deliver on our disclosures for this regulation next year if we don't work together and the recognising the different angles that everyone comes into the conversation with is what's really making the difference. 

And genuinely, I know it's regulation. And so some people might find that a little dull, but I think it's super exciting because it's really driving a momentum on actually really facing into these climate risks and opportunities, which is so fundamental for business resilience going forward.

Amie:

So you spoke about that internal collaboration and the silos and I mean, I can tell you now, it does go beyond retail. We all see it in most industries. But transforming the food systems requires that level of collaboration, you know, whether it be across supply chain, policy makers, consumers. I'm keen to understand how do you approach sort of these partnerships, so to speak, to drive that meaningful change.

Karen:

I could not agree more, Amie. It is so fundamental and it isn't easy. I'm actually going to use a bit of a story back from my UK retail experience because I think it's a good, and then translate it into what I think we need to do in Australia. it was to do with a bacteria called Campylobacter, which is actually a bacteria you find in the guts of chickens. You find it in raw chicken and it was the biggest cause of foodborne illness in the United Kingdom. And the government challenged industry, the incidence was about, I believe it was around 65, 70% of chickens were highly contaminated with this bacteria. And the government said, right industry, we want you to sort this out. So they challenged us to get below 20% initially, and then eventually 10. And eventually we got down to below 10, I think we got to six or 7% incidence. And what was happened was we set up a working group, it was called ACT, Acting on Compile of Actors Together. 

And it was genuine cross sector collaboration. was DEFRA, who's like our department of ag, retailers, and there was six or seven retailers involved, national farmers union, processors, so competitors in that industry as well. So different chicken processors. And we, it was over a 10 year period and this working group with me and we would go off and work on our own work streams and then come back together and share what we'd learned. And it covered everything from customer information. 

So about not washing your chickens, because people wash their chickens in their kitchens apparently and all that does is just spray the bugs around their kitchens, which is no good. Looking at genetics of birds, so proper veterinary scientists going on. Looking at leak-proof packaging. Innovations in factory technology, so using steam in the factory to try and reduce the incidence of this bacteria on the chicken. Welfare metrics, so looking at animal welfare, because if the birds are stressed, then actually did that lead to a higher incidence?

The important thing was all of these learnings from all of these trials were then shared across the whole industry. It was so inspiring to see all those players and many competitors come together for something that was the common good of reducing foodborne illness. And no one can argue that reducing foodborne illness and having less foodborne disease and bacteria in customers' homes is not a good thing. And I think that was, it was such a great project to be involved in translate that over to Australia, and the Australian landscape from a competition point of view is really quite different. It's quite complex. 

However, I am excited. What we've got going on at the moment with the Soft Plastics Task Force, which I'm not directly involved in, but I know a little about, is a really positive example of where industry is coming together to really solve a national problem. It's bringing with endorsement from the ACCC, it's bringing together retailers and other industry FMCG players to actually figure out how do we fix the infrastructure challenges around soft plastics. And that's something that customers care so passionately about and tell us in our customer research that's one of their really top pain points for us. So hopefully it will continue to go well and it will open the door for some more pre-competitive opportunities because the only way you are going to drive systems change in our Australian food industry is to have that cross sector collaboration on these really big complicated issues.

Angeline:

And such a great example from the UK, but also in Australia, right? And I think, as you say, it's those big hairy challenges that needs all of us to come together to solve across the supply chain. Otherwise, you know, it's so hard for one business to solve in its own. 

Amie:

It's just not going to work if you don't.

Angeline:

No, we'll be chipping away forever as well.

So let's, I guess the customer piece, let's kind of pivot onto that. And you know, customers always say, and I'm sure you've been involved in lots and lots of conversations with, with customers where they say they want sustainable options, but at times their behavior doesn't always align to purchase decisions. So I'm interested in understanding how you design strategies to make sustainable choices, one easier and more appealing to the shoppers?

And then how do you navigate all the conflicting priorities in retail decision-making? Step us through that.

Karen:

Well, you're so right, Angélique, in what customers say they do and what they actually believe they do. And then what they actually do in reality is so often not the same. However, there is a role for some sustainably marketed products, but actually I think it's more about embedding sustainable practice into just how we do business as a retailer. And frankly, that is exactly what my role is all about. It's about embedding some of this into just how we work. 

So we've actually got a supplier engagement target at Coles where we have committed to engage 75% of our suppliers by spend to set a scope one and two emissions reduction target, science-based target. And I talked to the commercial team just this week about this target and how we're getting on with it. And it's all about actually being that support and encouraging our supplier to do this. It's in no way compulsory, but there is this perception that it's going to increase costs. And that's something that a big part of my role is to really try and challenge. 

If you think about the topic of emissions, emissions in a very simple sense is fuel and it's electricity, it's energy, it's gas. And so what we're asking ourselves as our own business and our own operations to do, as well as working with and supporting our suppliers to do, is to actually use less fuel and less energy, which ultimately, if you take a slightly longer term view, should make us all more productive, alll more efficient and actually do the opposite of adding in costs. it's really about how do we get that across to the business? 

And Murrell's all about helping my commercial colleagues to really understand that, sharing case studies to try and understand whether someone might have done it really well already and how we can help another supplier or another what we've learned in our business because we've got some manufacturing operations, how we can share some of those learnings. And often this is not something we'd actually market on pack, which therefore is a little bit harder sometimes it's selling to the business. But that responsibility that we have as a retailer to influence and drive positive industry change is something I take incredibly seriously and has been a big part of my job for my entire 20 something years I've been doing it now. 

And your point about conflicting priorities, my goodness, that is daily life in a retailer. There is always about trade offs. I think that just sort of sums up what most of the roles in retail are about. For me personally, it's about maintaining integrity and I think as the years or the decades have gone by, then I've like, I've learned to trust my gut instinct and my gut instinct that's then ruled by a really strong integrity with facts and data to back up your decisions, of course, but that's when you kind of, you don't really go wrong if you, if you use that integrity as like your North Star.

Angeline:

That's really powerful. Do you find that also works with your suppliers as well?

Karen:

Yeah, I think it's just about being honest and about being open and having and developing trusted relationships throughout my whole career. Building those relationships with your suppliers and then building them back with you is so fundamental. Understanding their challenges, genuinely understanding and listening to them and then them understanding yours too and understanding each other's challenges and using that to find a way to solve problems and then ultimately to make decisions is exactly how it has to work.

Amie:

So from a sustainability point of view, this, you know, what you've said is really logical and I love that. But it often takes years to show results, right? So you've been doing this for one year, so I'm sure you can speak to this now, but customers often expect those quick wins. So how do you measure and communicate the commercial impact of sustainable initiatives in a way that resonates with those customers and potentially internally with those stakeholders as well?

Karen:

So true, Amie, it does take years and actually customers do want things tomorrow. And I think it's really important, and this was instilled in me through my 20 odd years in M&S, that you have to innovate your way through commercially tough times. And the current cost of living challenges that so many customers are facing in the country right now, then the business and customers have an obvious focus on dollar value rather than a broader definition of value right now.

And sustainable, you do our last research we did last year, sustainability has obviously moved down the rankings in terms of importance for customers. That's no surprise. It's to be expected and it doesn't worry me at all. What we have to do as Coles is continue to invest in things like our solar energy program and some of our sustainability initiatives. Because Amie, you brilliantly said, you can't just turn these things on next month. We have to keep going. Now, what does realistically happen is that sometimes the pace has to slow a little bit.

But the important bit is that you don't stop. And then actually, because it's all about making your business more resilient and making our operations more resilient and making sure that we're still fit for the future, then it's not hard to make the business understand that we need to keep going on this and we need to keep pushing and keep driving and keep investing. And then the communication, well, that depends on the stakeholder. Other than packaging, customers at the moment don't really want to hear about the environment. Like I said, they're just understandably so focused on value and just being able to feed their families that has to be where our focus lies as a business as well. And it absolutely does. Having said that, other stakeholders that we have, such as NGOs or investors, they absolutely haven't taken their foot off the gas, so to speak, on this topic. So our focus, I guess, from a communication point of view on some of this has shifted just to different stakeholders at this time.

And in terms of how we do it and how we communicate, whether it is to customers or any stakeholder, then I think transparency is really key. And being as transparent as you can, which isn't always as transparent as you want to be for various reasons, but yeah, just being as open and honest as you can. And if it is hard, and some of this stuff, you get to 90 something per cent. And what's that phrase? Perfect is the enemy of good.

And that is so true in this space because if you try and not say anything until you've got to 100%, then you might never get there because that last tail is really hard so often in so many initiatives. But, actually getting to 98 is still really good.

Amie:

Yeah, and it often feels like, yeah, it often feels like you're not being as transparent as possible if you're waiting for that perfect moment.

Karen:

Yeah, yeah. But then how do you communicate honestly so that you are, yeah, you're saying, right, we're not perfect, but we have done this and we've tried really hard. So yeah, that's how we have to manage communication. 

Amie:

Balancing act. 

Karen:

Totally.

Angeline:

Sure is, it's that progress, isn't it? Especially now when consumers want to hear, they want to hear what's happening and the journey that you're on. So Karen, you talked a little bit about your deep sense of responsibility that you carry with you in all that you do and how you show up and that example before of integrity as well. How is staying true to your values influence the way you lead and make decisions in your role?

Karen:

Oh it's fundamental Angeline. It is really, I really believe it's important to understand your values and to understand your strengths. So I am absolutely passionate that you should try and become even better at what you're already really good at and then hire people who are good at the stuff that you're not so great at. That's not a way to ignore your development opportunities, but I've always tried to instill that in the teams that I've had the pleasure of leading and…

Angeline:

I love good to great, that's one of my principles too.

Karen:

Totally, totally. YeahAnd my personal top three core values, they're integrity, fairness and recognition. And they're so integral. And I think once you understand them, you realise they're so integral to just how your brain works, that it's actually really hard not to follow them. And almost the bigger challenge is when someone else rocks them, then actually how do you manage your reaction to that is one of the bigger challenges. I was really lucky that I got to go on an amazing women in leadership kind of program a few years ago.

One of my peers, actually one of my colleagues that used to be part of my team described me as authentic. And that was before authentic was kind of the word that was used so often nowadays in leadership. This is about 15 years ago, maybe. And that really made me realise something that actually, I was like, what does she really mean by that? And she's like, well, I just feel like you are genuinely who you are. And sometimes I then have to, I always felt like I had to moderate some of my enthusiasm sometimes in my earlier career. But actually, you're true to yourself, honestly, life is just easier and work is hard enough without trying to pretend to be someone or something else. And what has been genuinely amazing since I've been now at for three years is that I genuinely feel like I can really be me. And Coles values are care, courage, customer and creating for the future. And whilst they don't, they're not exactly what I just told you my core values are, all of them resonate with me. 

And I think you have to find a business where the values of it sit really comfortably with you. Retail is hard, it's full on, it's high energy, it's fast paced. And I love all that about it. But I really feel at home there. And so much so that I'm super proud of this. And I'm not very good normally at like, being up my own self. But I won an award after my first year called Rookie of the Year. Totally blew me away. I'd been there for 10 months. I was nominated by my team.

And honestly, it is probably my career highlight. And it was that, and probably not surprising given my value of recognition, but probably that's why it resonated so much. But I think that principle that I was just being recognised for being me and whether it's my age, whether it's moving to the other side of the world, don't know, whether it is Coles, whether it's all of the above, but just I think it's easier to be successful in your professional career if you really feel like you can be yourself.

Angeline:

Such great advice and congratulations, Rookie Karen on the award. 

Karen:

Rookie in your 40s is great,

Angeline:

Why not? We're always young. That's fantastic to hear that alignment of values. I must say that's a deep sense for me as well in terms of when that does happen, it's fabulous. As you say, you can just show up as your true self.

Amie:

That's awesome. Okay, so looking ahead, what do you see as the biggest opportunities and challenges in food FMCG retail and what innovations excite you the most?

Karen:

So I think we've already spoken about one of them. I think one of the biggest both opportunities and challenges is this collaboration and how do we actually collaborate in this competitive landscape? And I, like I said, I'm excited to see where the soft plastic task force goes. I think there's an opportunity there. I'm also excited about the way that this new regulation is driving some real momentum. So for me and my sustainability role driving momentum in actually making changes positively influencing the Australian food industry. 

And what's exciting about the regulation as well is that it's not just a food and grocery regulation. So it's Australian business regulation that's corporate. So anyone who does any kind of annual reporting will eventually need to report against it. So that means that at the moment, some of the big guys like the banks are also asking the same thing of our suppliers that we're asking of them. So you're getting true cross-sector collaboration to do some really important work about how do we actually go on that journey to net zero as a country, as well as all the corporates within it. 

And genuinely that's a very big opportunity, but I think it's a really exciting one that retail has a really important role to play in and Coles has a really important role to play in. And I'm just genuinely excited to be part of that. A little bit scared too, it's quite a big task and there is so much to get after, but it's a real privilege to be able to genuinely, positively change things for future generations, frankly.

Angeline:

You touched on collaboration. It's a word we hear all the time across the sector and across other sectors as well. What do you think truly needs to happen for collaboration to happen more often, much better, and for the long game?

Karen:

Angeline, I think it's about trust. I think it's about trust and identifying areas like my compiler battery, my chickens, where it is genuinely pre-competitive. And I think it's about trusting in our integrity of the corporations across Australia that we can work together and that we will be better for working together.

And certainly collaboration internally, that's an external answer, but internally, then it's definitely about recognising the skill sets across the business, which we're getting at doing. Breaking down those silos is my like, I was about to my one woman mission. There's a few of us who trying to do it, but it does feel like you are literally physically trying to break down walls sometimes, but then when you do and it's enjoyable as well as productive. Yeah. And it's fascinating. 

I mean these very clever people that work in legal and risk and compliance and all sorts of things like that, then you meet some amazing people that really challenge the way you think. And I think we talk a lot about diversity when we're talking about women, leadership and things that having diversity of thought around the table, but actually diversity of profession, I think is really important as well. And learning from experts in their field, whether that's internally in our business and Coles, or whether it's across the industry, genuinely, I think that's where you can really make some magic.

Angeline:

Yeah, I love that. I think collaboration and trust, something that you touched on there that sometimes we don't talk about it. It's either assumed or not, but you have to earn it. You have to create it. You have to build it, right.

Karen:

100 % you do, yeah.

Amie:

Love it. All right. Well, thank you, Karen and Angeline and a big thank you for listening to this episode of Women Transforming Food. If you've enjoyed this episode, feel free to like and subscribe wherever you tune into your podcasts.