Episode 13: Ruth Muller sparks joy at Suntory Oceania through science and creativity

Amie and Angeline sit down with Ruth Muller, interim CMO and chief R&D officer at Suntory Asia.  They discuss her passion in creating an environment that enables team members to excel by identifying and using their strengths to achieve a shared vision, all while embracing the diversity of individuals. 

Transcript

Amie:

Welcome to Women Transforming Food, a monthly podcast brought to you by G100 and Inside FMCG, exploring the stories of inspiring women shaping the food industry. Today, I'm joined by my co-host, Angeline Acharya, Asia Pacific Chair of the Food Systems Innovation and Resilience Wing for G100 Mission Million, and Ruth Muller, Chief Marketing Officer and R&D Director at SunTory. Ruth holds a unique dual role that bridges the creative world of marketing with the scientific rigor of research and development. It's a rare combination in our industry. She's passionate about creating meaningful moments of joy for consumers through both innovative products and authentic brand connections, particularly with younger generations. Ruth's journey embodies the transformative leadership we celebrate on this podcast and I'm excited to explore how she's reshaping the intersection of marketing and innovation at one of the world's leading beverage companies. 

Ruth, I wanted to start with your core passion, creating and now selling products that create those real moments of joy and meaning for consumers. What I found fascinating from our call a few weeks ago was that you didn't always see this profound impact of working in food. So I'm keen to understand thinking back to your early days in R &D, can you pinpoint when you first realised the true power of building a genuine emotional connection directly into the tangible experience of a product.

Ruth:

Thanks, yeah. I started my career as a chemist in skincare, not a food technologist. So I moved across to foods because I thought it would be a great experience and then to move back to skincare. But when I moved across to foods, I realized that this is what I need to do for the rest of my life. And I was just so inspired by the passion that everybody working in foods seemed to have.

Even when you're interviewing someone for a job interview and you say, what's your favorite food? They just completely lose track of the fact that it's an interview and start to share all their passion. And food is not just about the functional or nutritional side, but it's actually about connection and it's about hospitality and it's about love and many cultures. And this is just such an energising place to be able to be.

So once I'd fallen in love with the category and I realised food and beverage is where I want to be, then I guess I started to evolve over time as to what my role was and how I was contributing. And the overarching job we need to do is we're helping to create moments of joy for people. And look, we're not solving world peace, but these little things that we do when we help people to enjoy that product that they love, it actually is giving them something. And in a stressful world that's constantly changing, these little moments of joy do matter. And then as I thought about what is the role that I play in this, I'm not the one in the lab doing the magic. I'm helping to create that environment. 

So it's really creating an environment for other people to excel and really understanding individual strengths within the team and how you bring those strengths together so that as a team you're able to move towards that shared vision. And just making sure that you're fostering that sense of collaboration so you can get the diverse thinking out of the team and bring it together and level up your thinking and level up your outputs in a way that you couldn't do if it was just one or two people working alone. So I think that's what I'm really passionate about. It's how you create that environment. And I think for me personally, in terms of what I bring to the table is I do have a deep curiosity about consumers. So I do keep asking and I keep digging until I can really get the picture in my head. And then I can synthesise the data and then help to provide direction to the team.

Angeline:

Wow. There is so much in there to unpack. Now that you're applying that same philosophy to brand, leveraging your unique dual perspective, how does having that deep product knowledge help you build a more resilient and powerful brand in a crowded marketplace?

Ruth:

Yes, so look, I've worked with marketing for the entire 25 years of my career. As an R &D person, I talk to consumers all the time when I'm out and about. And what I realized when I moved across to marketing is when you're speaking to people with an R &D lens, you naturally gear towards the functional elements, the product experience, the pack, the smell, et cetera.

And I was asking myself, what does this brand mean to people? And I was sort of a bit shocked at myself that I didn't know the answer to that question despite the number of consumers I speak to. So what I'd realised is that I hadn't been connecting with them from that perspective. So then I started asking that question. And I realised that even for functional products like an energy drink, it's actually such an emotional connection and this could be around, you know, how does it make you feel? What does it give you in terms of the emotional energy? 

And also, you know, to do with how you identify with it and how the interaction between the brand and your identity connects together. So that was a big learning for me. It's interesting having marketing and R&D because there are things that they have in common and there's things that are different. So you always need to have a level of tension between marketing and R &D because if you don't, then sometimes the influence of marketing can downplay the long-term thinking of R&D, which is very important. And also R&D can have lots of ideas, but they may not have that strategic or commercial relevance. So it's important that R&D and marketing are always encouraging people to think differently and challenging each other so you can get to those better outcomes. And there are differences. So marketing and R&D, they're both an art and they're both a science, but the actual science and the capability is quite different. 

Whereas if you think of the art side of it, that's probably where it's a little more similar. So I think there's four areas where I think it's very important for marketing and R&D to be absolutely joined at the hip in order to deliver great products for people. And the first is that consumer obsession. So it's got to start with the consumer and you've got to be genuine about it. The second thing is innovation. And this is around turning creativity and creative thinking into something of value.

The third one is you do need to have that commercial grounding, the ROI, making sure that the ideas have market relevance, and then people. So this is around fostering an environment where collaboration and creativity thrive.

Angeline:

Wow, that is a nice little cheat sheet, would say, Ruth, and absolutely couldn't concur anymore with you. This whole emotional and rational piece and starting with a consumer all the way never makes it a not a great product out there. So thank you.

Amie:

That's so true. So tapping into that fourth point, let's talk about the operational pillar behind this. And that is our teams, your team. They really are the how, I suppose, you foster this emotional connection with brand. So it's important to create an environment where teams can flourish. And I think you actually spoke to that in your first point and your second point. So it's obviously a deep passion for you. Can you unpack that a little bit for us? So how do you intentionally bring different types of thinkers together to create brands that genuinely connect with people.

Ruth:

Yeah, well, I do think that this is about taking people who think differently and bringing them together in a collaborative environment so that they can challenge each other, that each other's thinking and level up to come up with things that they never could have come up with on their own. So, if I mean, diversity and inclusion is something that I'm really passionate about. So I've spent the last five years in leading DEI, but also I would probably say the last 20 years of my career with an interest in it. But also it's always been a passion of mine as since I've been a young child, I grew up in a small Māori village and different perspectives were really valued within my childhood. So I think it's really a core part of who I am. But if you think about diversity without psychological safety, it's wasted potential because the ideas need to be shared, even if they're not perfect, in order for you to garner that value from them. 

So I think an example of this is I always encourage my team to disagree with me, because we need to have an environment where people disagree with each other. Otherwise, they're just repressing their thinking and you never get the value for that. So I say to my team, you know, when they come in, when they've just graduated, look, you know more about me. You're a digital native. You know more about me than Gen Z. So feel free to provide your inputs. Disagree with me. If it turns out it's not right, then you've learned something, but you might be right and we might go off in a different direction if you challenge me. So creating that environment is the first step that you need to bring the different thinking out.

And then it's really a matter of making sure that you're getting that interaction. So the value of diversity for creativity and stronger organisational outputs is the cognitive diversity as opposed to the demographic diversity. The demographic diversity is important for representation and that's important for people's engagement and connection.

And then sometimes the demographic diversity feeds the cognitive diversity. And what I mean by that is you might think differently, you might be a real problem solver if you've had a disability that you've had to constantly work towards overcoming in the environment. So that might make you a really strong problem solver. Or there might be cultural drivers that have influenced the way that you think. So if we think about that cognitive diversity, you might have two people with a different perspective and you can't, they're completely different and it's like a paradox that you can't bring together. But if you engage in the process of dialectical thinking and you say, what about this? What about this? What about this? You get to a place of transformation where the idea is not the original first or second one, but it's something completely new or different that you never would have come up with if you haven't engaged in that. 

So it's creating the environment and creating situations where you can get to that breakthrough thinking. And I think now in a world where AI is coming through, it's not just going to be about human resources, it's also going to be about the combination of human and digital resources together.

Angeline:

What's been the response of people when you try and create that environment, like a young grad coming in and they're hearing from probably a few levels up, what's been their response?

Ruth:

Yeah, look, it's, think initially depending on what type of people, type of environment people have grown up in or been educated in, sometimes it's not always easy and it takes a bit of time before they can get used to that. But I think I had an example once where someone in my team had just done an ethics course and they actually said to the manager, think Ruth might've had an ethics breach. And I immediately checked with HR and it was totally fine, it was a misunderstanding. And then by probably about midnight, once I'd gotten over the initial shock of it, I actually thought, wow, that is actually amazing that I've got that much psychological safety in my team where someone four levels below me can say something like that. 

That was proof that we really did have an example of people speaking up. So if they're going to speak up about that, they're going to speak up if they disagree with my assessment of what the consumer wants on something. And often they're closer to this. So we get better results. So I think that this is such a critical part of any innovation process is to be able to garner all the ideas from the team, no matter where they come from. And also sort of building a sense of empathy. So this is understanding, like appreciating the strengths and the values of each other, because it might not always be obvious or inherent to you when you see diversity within the team and differences. So how can you create an environment where you're understanding different working styles, different approaches, and leveraging those different strengths with curiosity rather than judgment?

Angeline:

I love that example. And I think, you know, it kind of really speaks to the authentic leader that you are, Ruth. Could you walk us through an example from the Suntory portfolio on where you successfully built a powerful campaign around emotional connection and empowerment.

Ruth:

Yeah, I mean, I think that when you're building brands and you're building products and you're creating demand, it's important that you're doing it in a positive way. And I guess, you know, I've always had a connection to energy drinks. I've been a V sugar-free drinker for I think as long as it's been around. And I guess, you know, I just remember, I'd be driving around to meetings going from one site to another. I'd pull into the servo and I'd go in and I'd sort of be thinking, know, subconsciously I'd be already preparing for my V before I drink it. And then finally I'd got it, I'd crack it open, you know, it's cold and you hear that sound when you open it and then I drink it and it kind of gives me something. And that experience that it's a little, little thing, but it really meant something to me.

And it always has. And I think that's what we're creating for people, right? So within the V brand, you know, it's a bit different to the category norms, which are traditionally sort of around energy drinks or around sort of extreme sport. And sometimes it can sort of feel a bit masculine and a bit aggressive, but V has always been quite an approachable brand. It's sort of a bit quirky and it has quite a universal appeal.

So what we really want to do is think about how V shows up and supports you to be your best self, right? So if I feel like, you know, I'm walking into a big meeting and I just want to sort of relax and prepare for that, I have a V and it just sort of makes me feel quite calm and then I'll walk into that meeting and feel really positive and different people have different examples. I was talking to a friend recently who's got two little kids and she just would say you know she'll get up on a Saturday morning, she'll be doing the housework, she'll be taking the kids around and she feels a bit flustered and she'll have a V and it sort of gives her the energy to do that part of her day and I guess the thing with V is that whatever it is that you need that little spark you know, it's there to sort of give you that little spark when you need it.

Angeline:

Wow, that is an advert for VEnergy. Go out there and grab one.

Amie:

Following on from that, I think a challenge for any leader, and I think you spoke about this in your third point initially, is proving ROI. So how do you measure the success of this integrated approach that you've developed? What metrics do you look at beyond sales that tell you your brand connection is deepening and your innovation pipeline is healthy?

Ruth:

Yeah, so I think you've got all the traditional measures. You've got your short-term measures around your commercials, market share, sales, etc. And then I guess if you're looking at long-term, you're building brand equity, which is all around your brand health tracking. So I think those are really important. The other part of it though is not just what you're doing externally, it's what you're doing internally because I think as we spoke about earlier, if you've got the right team and the right strategy and everything's working, then the output of what you're doing in the marketplace will be a reflection of what you're doing internally. So I do think that measuring how your team is performing and how they're feeling is just such a critical element as well. 

So doing things like pulse surveys, checking in on motivation. This can be sort of formal company-wide things or sometimes we'll just be in team meetings and we'll use this sort of thumbs up, thumbs down to see how everybody's feeling and just making sure that we're checking in along the way and that everybody's feeling engaged about what they're doing and also connecting really well. 

Angeline:

Ruth, on the flip side of building brands for consumers, you're clearly passionate and a passionate advocate for Suntory yourself as a leader. How important is the personal alignment with the company's vision and mission? How does your own conviction help you drive the business forward, especially during challenging transformations?

Ruth:

Yeah, I mean, I absolutely love this company. I've been here for eight years and I think there's a real values alignment for me. So this is things like the long-term focus that Suntory has and the future thinking. So an example of that is one of my partners in Tokyo, when I first started working with him, I said, what's your vision?

And he said to me, I want consumers to love our products 50 years from now. And I've never heard that before. People don't talk about their next job, let alone their career, let alone be on their life. So when you're thinking 20 years or 50 years into the future, you actually do things differently now. So these types of things are really inspiring to me. There is a huge consumer focus within Suntory and again that's just how I'm built so I love that. But even the commitment to society, there's an aged care facility in Japan which is co-located with a child care facility so basically the elderly people and the little toddlers and babies get to hang out with each other and I just think that's so amazing. 

And another thing is that the one of their whiskey factories they've got a bird sanctuary that they built, established, I think it was about 50 years ago. And that was back in the day where there wasn't much, you know, interest in that type of thing. And they just did it because it was the right thing to do. So I think, you know, you do face challenges. Everybody faces challenges in their job. And I think, you know, it might be economic headwinds or, you know, whatever it may be, but here's a story, you know, one of the stories I love is our founder. 

Ruth:

So our founder Shinjiro Tori, he started out trying to make wine. And then it took a while. This was so new for Japan. It took a while to get it right, but he just persevered. And then he did the same thing with Japanese whiskey. And this would take years or sometimes even decades to get to the point where it was working, but he was just so determined and he would have been in an environment where, you know, there would have been naysayers around him saying, no, you can't make whiskey in Japan. But he just persevered anyway. So, and that must have been really hard. And I think if you're a future focused person and you're trying to explain something to somebody that doesn't exist, you know, you're often in a place where people may not get that. 

So, you know, one of our leaders said to me once, if you ever feel discouraged or find it hard, just think about Shinjiro Tori and how hard it must have been for his journey and that he persevered. And I actually do think about that. So I feel quite inspired by that story.

Amie:

I love it. That's awesome. And I think sometimes when you are thinking that far ahead, it really does challenge the decision making process. And it would be hard sometimes to get buy-in because you're not going to see the immediate impact. But yes, it's a good one to think about. So Ruth, innovation inherently, it involves risks. We know that. And I love the juxtaposition that's created with your two roles. How do you balance investment in the next big innovation with supporting your core brands?

Ruth:

Yeah, so I think there's a, one of my friends once said to me, you can't mechanise a rainforest, you can mechanise the village next to the rainforest, but you can't mechanise a rainforest. So there kind of needs to be this organic thing happening to get the beauty and the awesomeness out of that. And I guess that's how I sort of think of the innovation that we need to deliver, which is there are things that might be fairly straightforward and simple to do. So if you're doing a new flavor, for example, that's something you've done so many times before and the processes that you need to get that through your system are actually quite known. 

So in those cases, you should try and make it as standardised and efficient as you possibly can. And what that then does is it frees up space to be able to do things, spend more time on things where you don't know the answers. And I mean, there's no magic bullet for innovation, right? You don't know what's going to work and what's not. But if you really are able to create some space for those things where you need to do the exploratory work, you need to go and, we talk about the Gemba, which is the, in Suntory, which is the place where value is created. So this is talking to consumers, it's being out in the marketplace, it's being in the factory. 

So if you spend some time there really understanding what's going on, what are the tension points, you know, another place again, but might be technical conferences, what's the latest technology that's happening, and you start to piece this together in quite an organic way. So it's sort of like that rainforest then sometimes, and again, it's this collaborative environment where you're feeding off each other and challenging each other, then you start to see things emerge that you wouldn't have seen if it had have been a more sort of structured, mechanised approach. So I think it's making sure that you have the culture and the space to be able to do both of those things.

Angeline:

I love that you've given it a name in the business and everyone can Gamber when they need to, right? So let's Gamber, Ruth. I guess looking ahead, how do you see the role of marketing and AI evolving the food and beverage industry? And how are you positioning Suntory to use these tools for positive impact?

Ruth:

Yeah, so I think there's things that will change and there's things that won't change and the need to build brands won't change. I think that we're always going to need that connection and we're going to need that humanness even more I think. So that's still going to be the same I expect but the way in which we deliver things I think will change quite dramatically.

I do think that creativity will become even more important. I think that AI tools can be very good at the mechanical, standardised, sort of the processing capacity. But in terms of being able to do things in a new and different way, that human creativity combined with digital tools and digital resources, that's where you really see the magic happen because you can have the thinking and have the ideas and then you'll have that computational power behind it to just 10x things. So I think when people are talking about AI, there's a lot of talk about efficiency. So you think, okay, well, I will do that thing quicker or easier and then I can reduce that head count. But I actually feel, I hypothesise that we're going to see more value creation and opportunity as opposed to efficiency. 

I mean, you definitely still need to build that efficiency in, but you'll be able to do so much more with the tools we have that'll take you in an entirely different direction and the value creation you can get from that will be amazing. I think we will probably not need less people. I think if anything, there'll continue to be a talent shortage.

It's just that we need to bring people on the journey because people's skills will really need to evolve. So how do you, how does, there's people that are gonna get this stuff naturally and how do you actually leverage those people to make sure that everybody's brought on the journey with us and nobody gets left behind. So I do think there might be changes to how you structure resources.

So if you're sort of looking at this is the objective of what I want to do, instead of having one large team, you may have a combination of permanent resources, fractional and digital resources in order to address the particular thing that you're trying to work on or deliver at the time. So I think a lot will change in terms of how we work, but the core of what marketing means and building brands that I think will continue. And I do think it's important, I mean, AI is going to have such a dramatic impact on, you know, value creation and how different companies are leading. 

So we need to make sure that I want to work for a company who has ethics and is actually using that for good. And I guess the thing with Suntory is that because they have such a big focus on giving back to society, I feel as though the more we learn here, the more positive impact the company can have.

Amie:

Thank you Ruth and Angeline and a big thank you for listening to this episode of Women Transforming Food. If you've enjoyed this episode, feel free to like and subscribe wherever you tune into your podcasts.